Coaching Programs & Being a Beginner with Lori Krikorian
Episode Description:
In today's episode I'm joined by entrepreneur and coach Lori Krikorian. We chat about entrepreneurship, over-priced coaching programs, being a beginner and trusting your gut.
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Episode Transcript
Intro
Hi, welcome back to Rebel Movement podcast, my name is Billie, my pronouns are they/them or she/her, and I’m really glad you’re here! I have another wonderful interview for you today, we’re talking about business ownership, but also– not really that, talking about like taking coaching programs, like high-ticket coaching programs, and– but it also kind of– we talk about a bunch of topics that we’ve, that myself and Jordan talked about previously in the podcast, like we call back to listening to your body, and intuition, and trusting your instincts, and learning how to listen to your body, and a bunch of different topics that we’ve kind of touched on in the podcast before, but we’re talking about it in a slightly different way today. It’s a really cool conversation and I think you can get a lot out of this whether or not you’re a business owner, whether or not you’re interested in taking a coaching program– such a cool conversation. So I’ll let you get into the episode, and stick around for after the episode for a couple of little tidbits.
Episode
12:59:14 Hey, I'm so excited that you're here. I'm very excited for this conversation because I think it's– I don't know it's not necessarily different from things we've talked about, but it is different from the last few interviews I've done. Can you tell us a little bit about you and who you are, what you do, and all that cool stuff?
12:59:35 Good, I'd love to. So I'm Lori Krikorian. I am a life and business coach, I mostly help new coaches or coaches in the beginning phases of their business, build their business and build momentum. And I also help women, you know, be the badass of their dreams.
12:59:56 That's awesome. Oh, what are your pronouns? I forgot to include that in my questions there.
13:00:02 She/her.
13:00:03 She/her, awesome. Thank you. How did you get started in this work? Is it something that you, like when you grew up, you're like, this is what I want to be or? Did you sort of like stumble into it or?
13:00:17 I did. I completely stumbled into it. When I went to certification– So I have two certifications, one with IPEC. And Institute– IPEC stands for Institute for Professional Excellence in Coaching.
13:00:36 Oh cool.
13:00:37 And I also got certified with the Life Coaching School. So when I first did my certification with IPEC, I thought I was gonna learn the answers to the world. I thought that a coach is a person who gives you all the answers.
13:01:03 Fair enough.
13:01:03 And yeah, like I didn't, I didn't know what I was getting myself into. And it's funny because when my husband and I started dating about 18 years ago I was just like, I hated my job, I hadn't yet found something that I really loved. He would like leave a family party and go to work, and be totally okay with it.
13:01:29 Oh yeah.
13:01:29 Cause he loved his job and I was like, I don't get that. And now I finally do.
13:01:34 Yeah, oh that's good.
13:01:36 So I feel like. You know, I started a long time ago– when I started this work, I started to really try to discover what my purpose in life was. And I'm like, well, what can I do? And I started making a list of all the things that I enjoy or that I'm into, and I could not picture myself doing anything related to any of those things. And then like somehow, some way, I still found the thing that was the thing for me, you know?
13:02:11 Yeah, that's nice. I like that. I think it's helpful because sometimes– I don't know, I've been there too where you're like, what do I even do? Like none of these things are things that I wanna do as like my full time thing or whatever, and it ends up being something– you end up finding something that you love and then it's not necessarily something that maybe you grew up thinking you would be. This is a random question–
13:02:36 Yeah, I did not know. I did not know coaching was a thing when I was a kid.
13:02:39 Didn't, no, same. Is there anything– This is a random question. It's– you don't have to answer it if you don't want to. Is there something when you were a kid that you were like, oh, I'm gonna be this when I grow up? Like, where you like– yeah, what was it?
13:02:51 Yeah. Yeah, I was like, I'm gonna be an actress–
13:02:55 Cute.
13:02:59 Because I want to be a cop, I want to be a babysitter, I want to be a business woman. I want so I wanted to play the role of all the things I wanted to do because I couldn't choose one thing.
13:03:06 Oh, smart. Oh my god, that's cute. That's so cute. Yeah.
13:03:09 And it's so– But it's so, like so typical me, like– Like just my, you know in IPEC we have these like seven levels of energy and you're primarily in one level and I'm primarily level 5, a lot of coaches are. And that's like the person who sees opportunities everywhere. And on the plus side, you see opportunities everywhere, you know, on the downside, sometimes there's so many things you want to do that you're completely overwhelmed, and you don't know which way to go.
And that is so me, always has been.
13:03:45 Yeah, I can relate to that for sure. It's hard to narrow things down and that's so smart, I never thought of being like, I can't make the decision so I'm gonna be an actor/actress so that I can do all of the things, that's so– that's smart. I like the way you think.
13:03:59 Yeah, I want it all.
13:04:00 Yeah, what made you decide to like start the coaching, like go into IPEC? Was there–
13:04:11 Yeah, I was, at the time I was in a multi-level marketing company. And they were teaching, like internet marketing. That was the thing, the service, or the you know, whatever they were selling. And, I mean, I started in this world of online businesses when I didn't even know what a hyperlink was, I didn't know what a domain was, and A lot of things are going over my head–
13:04:51 Fair
13:04:52 It's funny. It's funny that like– It's funny that I was there, but you know, it led to everything that I have in my life today and I truly am living the life that I want, you know, that I wanted back then. So I'd say it was pretty worth it. And the thing is, I didn't feel in alignment with you know, at some point I didn't feel in alignment with the company, but because of the transformation I was having, I still saw value in, you know, making that decision to invest in yourself, making that decision to, you know, do this thing that, you know, seems like a dream, but maybe there's a chance, you know? And so I went to coaching school because I figured, then if I bring people into my team, like whatever happens, I can always give them value. And that's what initially had me go to a coaching school. And in between starting coaching school and like, between signing up for it and starting two things happen. I left the MLM company. And I got pregnant with my second child.
13:06:14 Oh my god! Okay, for anyone who is listening, we just talked before hand I didn't, I didn't know this was the thing, but gesture, like if you make gestures or certain things happen in the conversation in zoom, sometimes reactions just can just happen. And I didn't know it was happening at first, but a whole bunch of balloons just went across the screen, which is amazing. I've never seen that happen before. I knew I wouldn't be able to hold that– hold in my reaction. So I just thought, fill you in just in case you're like, what is happening? That was amazing timing.
13:06:38 Okay. Yeah. I talk with my hands a lot so it happens to me all the time. It's really funny.
13:06:46 That's so funny. I had no idea. Now that I know, I feel like I'm gonna try to keep that–
13:06:51 Make it happen.
13:06:56 Yeah, exactly. Keep them in the back of my head. Maybe make it happen. Maybe practice first, see what happens. Anyway, sorry. Continue.
13:07:01 I got pregnant with my second child. I left the MLM company, and I started life coaching school and then that was it, like I was gonna you know, just focus on my coaching and you know I got– I had the shiny object syndrome for sure for a little while.
13:07:19 Yeah.
13:07:22 Which I think is very much related to what we're talking about right now. Because– well, we'll get into why it's really–
13:07:31 Yeah.
13:07:32 But. That was all– like that was it. And then, you know, later on I had a third child, so now it's like you're juggling you know, starting a business, having three kids, being the primary caregiver, and it wasn't until COVID hit that my husband and I really– like we were so in our gender roles. And then during COVID, the circumstances kind of changed, so I, you know, he had to work. He was working these intense weeks of like, 12 h days for five or more days straight. And then I'm alone with three kids, one of them is a baby. And you know, it was just, it was a lot. And so when he–
13:08:22 Yeah, that's a lot.
13:08:19 Yeah, and he was doing that because you see he's an air traffic controller–
13:08:28 Cool.
13:08:28 So they had split up the team in like three groups. So one group was working one week, one group was on standby, one group was off, and this shifted, so it was one week of intensity, and probably two weeks off. And so you know, I told him at the time, like, okay, now is the time that, you know, when you're off, you're going to take care of the kids, I'm going to focus on my business, and really give it the go that I want to give it. And so he started taking on a lot of the responsibilities that I was doing, and, and that's when things really shifted in my business as well.
13:09:12 Cool.
13:09:15 But no matter what, you know, we still prioritize his job and work around his schedule, because I'm an entrepreneur and I can be flexible. So it's one of the reasons why I wanted to become an entrepreneur.
13:09:29 Yeah, that totally makes sense. I also wanted to say too, I think it's really cool that you– I don't know if this– I think sometimes MLMs can be– people might feel like they're a little bit like morally questionable, and I think it's so– and I don't mean that as a judgment towards you at like literally at all, but I just thought how cool– like how listening to your story about how cool it was that part of your motivation to do the life coaching thing was so that you can be bringing– like you can be helping the people that you're working with. Like I feel like that's such a, I don't know. I feel like this nice is not a good enough word. Like, there's such a– nice is like such, seems like such a small word, but such an awesome, I don't know, motivation for going that you're just like, I just want to help people around me. I want to bring them, you know, like help them and bring them– I don't know, better– I don't know, improve their lives and do what I can to make, you know, make this place a little bit better or make this place as in the world a little bit better. Hopefully that doesn't sound like I'm– I don't mean any of that to be like an insult to where you were.
13:10:42 I am not insulted at all.
13:10:44 Okay, perfect.
13:10:47 It's funny that you mentioned that, because I think that a lot of the people that I helped and the topic that we're here to talk about today is so related to that. I think there's so many people. Who are– you know, who care deeply. About helping others who care deeply about you know, what service that they– what service they're providing. And I would definitely fall into the category of highly sensitive person, and I feel like a lot of my clients also are highly sensitive people. And when you are, it– like all of those things matter and then, so there's always gonna be a part of your brain that's questioning every single thing that you're doing. You know questioning whether it's good enough, which isn't necessarily the best thing because it'll stop you from taking action. But at the core of it, it's like you always have to like shift your focus onto, but what am I really here for, and what are my clients really getting out of this, and what is really in it for you know the people who are gonna be interacting with me? Or you know, it's like because the brain will use your ambition against you sometimes, you know and–
13:12:08 Totally.
13:12:05 And like, oh, focus on these things, like society says this is what success looks like, focus on this, try to do this, try to reach this goal. And then it's like, but people like– I would say you and I because you even, like you recognize that I would say that that's like a reflection that you're seeing in me of you. So you and I, and people like us, and I would assume a lot of your listeners, have to–
13:12:34 Probably.
13:12:38 Have to always focus on, what's in it for them? Not just the, you know, that part of your brain that's like jump this high, perform at this level.
13:12:49 Yeah, that's true. And it's funny because this– something you said earlier, I also thought of this, like something along these lines too you you were talking about when you first started working online– with online businesses, that you didn't know like what a hyperlink was or domains were, and I think that also it just reminded me of what you– basically what you just said where like, there's so many people that I've talked to whether they're artists or starting a business, or teaching or like whatever, where they want to do the thing. But they're like, I don't know enough yet, I need to do more training, I need to do this thing, I need to pay for another thing, I need to have someone else tell me that I'm good enough. When I feel like most– I can't say all the time, of course, because I don't know everyone and I don't know everyone's situation, but I feel like most of the time, you can just do the thing and you just, you will end up learning things as you go because sometimes you're like, hey, you're the expert in like the coaching. Maybe you don't know about domains and hyperlinks, but that's okay, you're gonna learn about them, because you– if you're working with online clients, you kind of have to figure it out as you go. So yeah, sorry it just reminded me of that. But like, we can be either so caught up in like, meeting other people's standards of what successful is, or good enough is, or care so much about the work we do, or the people we work with, that it can be hard sometimes to stop and like actually check in like, do I– no, I do know the things, I do know enough, I can start to be like a business owner, or I can make this decision, I can like raise my prices, or I can put my art out there, or whatever, like coming back in, checking in that like, we are something that is– We are as important as the people we are helping or the people we might be learning from.
13:14:41 Yeah, absolutely. I couldn't agree with you more. And I think that even if your– Even if your goal is, you know, society’s standards of success, that's cool. What I'm saying is that you always have to balance it out, like it could be a little bit about you, and a little bit about them, and a focus on either or too much, isn’t good.
13:15:11 That's true. That's a very good point. Yeah.
13:15:16 Oh, there’s so many things I want to talk about, but I don't know– I don't know which way to go first. Well, is there anything that you're like itching to say, like, itching to get into?
13:15:26 I feel like while we're talking, I'm like, oh, let's talk about this thing, let's talk about that thing–
13:15:29 Yeah, I'm all for that. I'm good with whatever. I think sometimes we set out with a plan–
This is gonna be like a summary of what we've talked about so far, I guess, but sometimes we set out with a plan in life or in conversations, or podcasts, interviews, and then you're like oh, wait, this thing is gonna be better, this thing's gonna be good. So I'm good with essentially, wherever this goes, whether it’s like what we planned on, or detours– I’m fine with– support all of it.
13:15:54 Okay, so I want to mention one thing regarding, what you just said about, you know, being in that position where you're like, I want to do this thing, but I don't know enough about it, or I'm not ready yet, and like really take it from me, a person who started off really not knowing anything at all, you know, like who cares if it takes you ten years? It took me eleven years to get to where I am today. Who cares? Because today I'm here.
13:16:22 I like that a lot.
13:16:20 You know, and along the way– it was so worth it because I was suffering, I was in so much pain because I was so negative, I didn't have boundaries, I was a people pleaser, I was like all of the things, you know, and it created so much drama in my life. And then once I started this work, I was like, okay, I'm done with the drama. And I was tested. Like the universe is gonna tell– oh yeah? You're done with drama? Let's see.
13:16:58 Yeah, exactly. I can imagine.
13:17:06 I got tempted a lot. But you know, it doesn't– like honestly who cares how long it takes? As long as you get to where you want to be and It is possible. I just truly believe that no matter– You know, I think that– I can’t deny that I've had privileges in life that made it easier for me. And I believe that even if you don't have those privileges, you can still do it. It might be harder. It might take more time. But it's worth it because it's what you want.
13:17:42 Yeah. It sounds like there was some life lessons or learning– like learning experiences along your way of, becoming– like becoming a coach and starting coaching,
13:17:54 Completely, cause I was in this like personal development, self-discovery phase. And honestly, when I started and through– for the first many years, it wasn't until recently that I realized it wasn't the case, but I thought I was broken. I thought I needed to be fixed in order to have success, in order to, you know, have the things that I want in life, even though I had a lot of the things that I wanted. But we're not broken, we're just human.
13:18:34 Yeah. Yeah, that's absolutely true. I just heard, I don't remember where– if this was in a conversation with somebody? It must have been. About– I'm trying to think of it– of the way of saying it so it's not going to be specific to the other topic that we were talking about in this previous conversation, but– I talked about how sometimes when you're working with people– with literally whatever area– It's some of the things you bring to the table is trainings like, you know, going to school, learning the things, whatever, and some of it is your lived experience, either in that topic if it's you know applicable, or just the way that you– How your history or how your healing journey has impacted the way that you interact with people, and there's gonna be some people that like, the way that you interact, the way you talk to them, the way you– like the way you think, the way you just– the way you– who you are, is gonna resonate with them so much because that they're gonna get a lot just from that let alone whatever else you're doing. Hopefully that's like, vague enough but specific enough that it still makes sense outside of that conversation. But just reminds me of that, of like when you've gone through some healing stuff, I can imagine that all of the lessons you've learned kind of still come through into the work you do, not– maybe not because you did the trainings, but just because you've done the trainings and also you've like done the work.
13:20:10 The work. Yeah, absolutely. It's like my– It's my secret sauce. Right?
13:20:18 It's like the–Man, I think back to– Well, you know, let's start talking about what we're here to talk about because I think back to starting, and you know I was like watching Super Soul Sunday, and you know just Devouring everything Oprah put out there and really questioning my life and you know, what is it? What is it that I meant to do? What is it that– my life purpose? I have no idea what it could possibly be, right? And at the time, there was a lot of– and there still is– like that's $7 investment, like buy this thing for $7 and you can learn this thing, right? And at the time, I felt so scared to make that investment. Not because of the $7, but because do I trust myself to do the thing? Or is this going to be one more thing that I'm going to be disappointed about? And I'm going to beat myself over– beat myself up over? Like if you’re go-to when you make a mistake, or when you make a wrong choice is, that you're going to beat yourself up, there is going to be a part of your brain that's going to protect you from that. And it's not gonna allow you to take that step. And do the thing. Because you kind of, sort of don't trust yourself.
13:21:57 Yeah, that totally makes sense. I think that has come up– I had that kind of– I mean, obviously we didn't have this conversation till right now, but I've had this thing come up with a couple of my clients in the last couple of weeks, which is just interesting timing that we're having this conversation today.
13:22:12 Yeah, and I–
13:22:14 Go for it, sorry go for it.
13:22:23 I used to go to a lot of mediums and a lot of– I don't know, past life progression, and I don't know what, and you know if they're like, they'll make you close your eyes and what's the first thing that comes up, and I would say something, and I was always trying to give the right answer, trying to say the right thing. Meeting and wanting validation that what I'm saying is the right thing, that it's what they're looking for, and when I– like today now, I just trust my instincts, you know, and that's been– part of the development that I had to go through is to learn which part of me is my instinct speaking and which part of me is– You know, if I'm in a situation like that where I have to say like what comes to mind, I trust that first thing that comes to mind.
13:23:26 It's like instinct versus conditioning. Or learned things. Yeah. I think that is so interesting because we've– A lot of us have grown up in like, being– basically being trained to not listen to our instincts, like not listen to hunger cues, not listen to, like literally so many different things– And it can be really– It takes work to learn to trust your instincts, even when– if, for example, in like a yoga class, if someone is new and you're saying like listen to your body, there's gonna be at least some people in the room, you're like, I don't know what the fuck that means. We're like– we've spent your whole life being told not to listen to your body, and then if you have a history of trauma there's a whole other big factor in there, but it's a lot of difficult work to– Like I never even thought of the thing where you're like, do you trust the first thing you say? I've definitely been in that situation like years ago where I feel like I probably did the same thing of like, am I saying the thing that they need to hear, like that they are– wanting like that valid– external validation.
And this is, I was just, it's interesting thinking about all of the, like you may go into some work of like learning, you know, learning when to know when you feel hungry, or learning to listen to your body, and then I didn't never even thought of all– well no, that’s a lie, I have thought of– But this is interesting to see all of the different– Like how far it can go that like if you start to learn to listen to your instincts rather than the conditioning, what an impact it can have on– Not just like your movement practice or whatever, but on everything.
13:25:18 Yeah, and it's, you know, the– It's ongoing. The work is ongoing.
13:25:24 Totally.
13:25:25 Like I recently– Last summer, at the end of last summer, I started working out and it was pretty intense four workouts a week, intense workouts and I was pushing through. And it didn't matter if I was in pain, I would show up, you know, and I didn't always give it my 100%, but you know, most of the time I really gave it my all. And then I had this back injury. Or my back was hurting and it felt like sciatica after a while. And it wasn't until I started working with an athletic therapist that he pointed out that you know, my back was compensating for muscles that weren't strong enough to do the movement properly. And I just had no idea. I had no clue and it took me out for such a long time and everybody told me to go back to working out. My doctor told me, my athletic therapist told me, my trainer told me, and I was too scared because I wasn't listening to– I just thought the pain was normal, I thought that once my core was stronger, the pain would go away– And now I'm back. And now I focus on, you know, which body part am I using for this movement, is it the right one? Is there an adjustment to make? And you know, and it's a complete game changer.
13:26:57 Oh, totally. Yeah, it’s interesting, one of the many benefits that– of like, learning to listen to any signals of like, oh pain, or sometimes they're just like, oh, I hate this posture, I've gotten that from quite a few– like I've heard that quite a few times over the years. Sometimes those signals can be like something is happening in the way that your body literally moves, or is put together, or is functioning on a basic level. Without you knowing you're doing– oops, sorry, that was really close to the mic– it's wanting you to slow down so that you can notice these things. Cause like, you said, sometimes your back is doing hip things, and your hips are doing you know, like knee things and it's you can't first of all, you're probably not gonna, you might not learn all this without working with like an athletic therapist or a movement coach or whatever, but it's not just– I don't know the idea of like slowing down to like listen to your body or just starting to trust your inner wisdom or inner voice or whatever, isn't– we are told often that it's because, oh because “you're lazy” in quotes or whatever, but sometimes it's like there's other things happening in your body because you're a complicated human being with a complicated history and there's something that your body wants you to know, or that– again, like, is just feeling weird. Sorry.
13:28:31 Something new to discover, something new to learn.
13:28:34 Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think that's the case with– not just movement, I know, giving that example in movement, but like you're, like you've been saying like, you can– when you start to check in, doesn't mean you have to make that– I don't think– I mean I don't think you necessarily have to make the switch to like a hundred percent listening to yourself all the time because that's going to be– that might be a little hard when you're first starting but at least like checking in now and then can take you to a lot of interesting places. I feel like I've taken us off on a little bit of a tangent here sorry, but it is connected I think. Is there– I'm just trying to think of a way of like tying in– So one of the things we're gonna talk about–
13:29:25 Well, I think that it is really connected to trusting your instincts. So what we're here to talk about is over investing in coaching programs, over investing in trainings, over investing– you know, and then finding yourself in a situation where not only are you freaked out by the amount of money that you put into this, but now you're completely frozen and you can't take any action. And again, I think that it goes down– it goes back to trusting your instincts. Because when you learn where– when it's your instinct or when it's like this, that voice in your head saying oh yeah, you need this to do that. Right? That instinctive “yes” has never steered me wrong. And as soon as I start like weighing pros and cons, I know it's not instinctive.
13:30:26 Oh yeah. So you've– Did you have a, like a learning experience where you're trying to figure out, like trying to make that switch, did you go down that road of like spending a bunch of money on coaching programs and then figure along the way, or like how did you transition to– Moving to the, like into the instinct part of it?
13:30:57 Yeah, I think so– I think that– In the beginning especially. You know, in the industry of personal development, self-help, coaching, MLM, all the stuff, there's this like constant message, you know, if you're serious about your dreams, invest in yourself. If you're serious about this, invest in yourself, and that puts you in a position where the dollar amount that you're investing is like proof of how much you believe in yourself. And so everybody is investing– Is looking to invest like big bucks, you know, or is feeling scared but doing it anyways, and investing a lot of money, and I have certainly done that more than once, where I'm like, this person has the key. You know, this person knows the secret. And I'm, you know, putting in so much money and then– I didn't realize it at the time, but my nervous system– and this is really important when you're a highly sensitive person, because your nervous system can get triggered very easily– And that's what was happening. I was going from my comfort zone. And throwing myself so far out into my panic zone by making this huge investment, that already the investment in and of itself is like triggering my freeze response. Now I'm in this course, and I have to do things that are beyond my skill level, I know I'm completely frozen. And I'm out all this money, and I can't even do the thing because I'm just not there yet.
13:33:03 Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. I think it's often, like you're saying it's tied, like the high investment means that you care, you know, more about yourself or you really want this. There's like a couple parts to it that, like one of them is that if you're a person who is low-income or you're not in the position where you can afford it, there's like a bit of– it feels sometimes like a little bit of pressure like, oh, you should do this– sorry– because you can't afford it like you, I don't know, like it means that you're somehow not good enough and like just right off the bat. But then also often some of these programs or whatever are tied to the– like you said that this person, this whatever, has the key– like if it's like a business coaching program just for, as an example, like this one business expert has the key, and if you do this you will be successful, 100%. And if you don't sign up for it, then like, oh, you know, you'll just keep on being where you're, where you're at. So then you might sign up for it and be like, even if you did some of the work, there's not one answer that's right for everybody and I feel like it– I signed up for quite a few, I mean not tons because I was a small business first starting, but I've signed up for a few of those different programs or whatever and always felt like, yeah, sure, I learned stuff from them for sure, but they didn't have the one answer that– Like there isn't one answer. There isn't one like thing because–
13:34:42 No.
13:34:41 First of all, like luck, and chance, and all of those things are more of a factor than we think, but also it's just different per person, because we're all different people, and we all have different needs.
13:34:58 Yeah, and especially when it comes to entrepreneurship, I think there's so many skills to develop. Like I see, you know, so many people who come into this industry and want to become entrepreneurs, and they're like, well, you know, I left a six-figure corporate job to do this thing, I should be able to get it. Like I was doing really well in my corporate position. This, you know, like I'm a pro at this, why am I not getting it? And it's because it's completely different. You're like, you're comparing a company who's been established and has gone through the growing pains, and has gone through the part where you know, they were questioning everything and they were at risk of bankruptcy, and you know like the struggle, you just weren't there for it, you came into the game when everything was like smooth sailing, you know, years down the line and you're expecting this thing to be the same but it isn't.
13:35:59 Yeah, that's so important. That you just weren't there to see they're struggling, I think that's so important. Cause it's– I think that's the case with so many different areas like business ownership for sure, and writing, and being a musician, and being an artist, and like we're– you know, learning anything, you don't just start off being a pro– some people you know, but that's less the case than going through the struggle where they're like, yeah, you're like, do I close
13:36:33 my business? Do I stop writing music? Do I stop trying to write books? And it's just, there just is the struggle as a part of it, like there's– I don't know any of the exact numbers,
I'm not gonna say try to pretend like I know them but, big companies have put out like hundreds or thousands of different products before the one that stuck that everyone knows, and now it's a famous company, or like really successful authors have put like– had you know tons of books out before, and they almost quit before the one that you know, really got them noticed or whatever. And not to say that like you have to struggle forever, but just that like it's not personal. It's not because you are a failure. It's because you're learning, you're new, and it's just, it's a phase that you– is like a pretty normal phase of. starting a business or being a writer. Does that sound super depressing when I say like that?
13:37:34 No, I think it's true, and I think it's as true for someone who isn't an entrepreneur, or an artist, someone who is going to job interviews and wants to you know, get a promotion of some kind, you know, within the department that they're currently in. I know my best friend was going through this, where she would go in and interview and she just, you know, one interview after another, she would give these really great answers, and then she would never be chosen for the position. And I'm like, yeah, but think about it this way, like you're practicing the skill of being interviewed and you're appearing in front of the same people over and over again, there is gonna come a point where they're gonna get to know you so well that they're gonna know you're gonna be perfect for a position that's open. And you know– and then it happened exactly like that. Right.
13:38:32 Yeah. Yeah, that's so true. Yeah, I think that with all of these. It can, definitely can feel hard, like it could be discouraging if you interview, you know, so many times and haven't heard anything. Or if you put out books or, you know, been in business or whatever, it can be discouraging, but I think if we can– like we've talked about learn to first of all I think zoom out and recognize that it's not just you. It's happened– like we've, it's happened in so many industries like we've had in this conversation, and start to, like start to check it back in with yourself and trust your own– in your own wisdom and your own voice. It's– can be helpful because then you can keep putting yourself out there, like keep showing up for the interviews or keep booking new interviews, or like whatever of– keep trying and putting yourself out there because it's not– the failure is not because you are a failure. Like the– not getting the job is not because you are a bad employee. I'm not saying that there are, you know, okay, there are some cases I'm sure where that might be the case, but, as a default would say it's probably not the case and it's probably a bunch of random factors that have nothing to do with you. Or just like a weird day.
13:40:04 Yeah, that's absolutely true. I was preparing– I had gotten– I was preparing a workshop for this corporate– Like for Women's Day, they wanted to do a workshop for their– for the female employees. And they wanted, it– first it was like they wanted to do like work-life balance and I said yes because you know, I know so many tools, I can go in there no problem, fill up the hour, you know it's like not an issue at all And then they wanted to do it about stress management, and I was like, oh, okay, this is a bit different. So then I started getting really stressed–
13:40:57 Oh no. Yeah.
13:40:51 As I'm preparing a stress management workshop, and it's so funny because all throughout the preparation period, there were these things that I was like, my brain was overwhelming me with like oh, you're gonna do you know, like the PowerPoint presentation and you know how long that's gonna take you, you know how long it took you last time, you know how dreadful it was last time, it's gonna be the same again, and you're not gonna be able to do it pretty, and you're not gonna be able to do it like that, and you're not gonna be able to do it like that person– All of the things. And then I started working on it and I realize, oh, this is a lot easier, Canva has you know, presentation templates and it's so much easier to work with now–
13:41:53 Totally.
13:41:53 So I started– as I started to do it and started to realize like, okay, this is easier than I thought, at some point I was like really freaking out because I'm like, oh my god, what if this goes bad? What if like you know, my friend who referred me is gonna look like you know, the worst person on earth, she's gonna look so stupid because she referred me and I don't know what I'm talking about, or I don't know, or I'm gonna look unprofessional. And then I realized, you know what? What I have currently is enough, and I know enough that I can go and rock it, and then I started to repeat that thought every time the, “what if you suck at this” came in–
13:42:41 That's good idea.
13:42:42 I started to repeat the thought like, “yeah, no, actually I do not.” And I was so grounded in my knowing and my knowledge and all of this stuff, that it really carried me through, and then I did rock it out, like I was so in my element, and everybody loved it, and they want me to go back. So, you know, there's always that aspect of your brain who’s constantly going to tell you that you're not good enough, and you just got to check that.
13:43:14 Yeah, that's absolutely true. I think that's so important. We can be so hard on ourselves. I had like an experience– I was putting on a workshop and there's a part of it– It was like a Supporting Mental Health with Yoga workshop, so most of it was movement, but there was– I did a section in it talking about why like why it's helpful, so that you know to to have some evidence behind like why we're doing some of these things. And I love this stuff so much. And you know, I put out there at the beginning, like I'm not a mental health expert, I'm not a therapist, you know what I mean. So they already know that stuff, but there's one of the workshops that had done a couple already and I hadn't like, done the level of preparing that I had done previously and I was starting to panic, and I was talking on the phone with my partner and he said, okay, just run through it right now. Just start, start like you're doing the workshop. I did the entire thing without even looking at any papers. And he was like, you don’t need them, like you know way more than you think. Like you are– which is just like, I try to remember that. Like what you said, like we're so hard on ourselves that we think we don't have enough, we don't know enough, we whatever– When like chances are, you're doing way better than you think, and like you said check it like it's– you gotta zoom out a little bit.
13:44:42 Yeah, exactly.
13:44:39 Yeah. Oh that’s really nice, I really like the way that this conversation went. I think it was really helpful and really awesome.
Is there anything else you wanted to say before we wrap up? Not like– we'll get you to plug in a second if you want to, but is there anything that you felt like it didn't get said that you want to say, or, any last minute like tidbits?
13:45:04 Yeah, I just wanna go back to– You know, what we're here to talk about and you know, over extending yourself, over, you know, investing, and I think it's always a good idea first of all, really knowing where your comfort level is, and going only just outside of your comfort level. You know, doing that thing that’s not too hard, but a little bit challenging, but you can do it. And finding that over, and over, and over again. Whether it's the amount of money that you're investing in the thing that you want to do, and growing your comfort level little by little as you invest. Knowing that, you know, there's probably someone who's offering what you want for a price that's within your comfort level out there, so it doesn't have to be this person who seems to know everything and is charging so much money because you know, they value money, you know, it's like– I mean, the reality is there are some people who grew up with no money who end up valuing money a lot, and so making money is the driving force for those people, and they can charge a ton of money and they're completely cool with it. Right? I'm not that person. I don't know, I just– I want there to be like some balance between, you know, between what you're investing, what you're getting, what you're– you know, like I just don't think that the price always determines the value of the product that you're getting. And looking at your scale level and where you're at is a huge factor in this. I think in the coaching industry especially, there's a lot of people preaching, you know, make this. 5-figure investment. Or 4-figure investment and you're gonna be making you know, you're gonna be having 5-figure months in no time, you know and it doesn't matter where you're at, it's like beginners can do this too. Yes, maybe a beginner who has already built the skills that are required can come in and do this, but that's not the average person. The average person is starting up with high hopes, big dreams. And I said it in the beginning and I'll say it again, you know, it doesn't matter how long it takes you and it is possible, and also allow yourself to be a beginner, I think people are afraid of that, I think that there's a lot of resistance around being a beginner at some thing. Like I see it in my son a lot, my second child. I mean for the longest time he just refused to do any homework or refused to listen in class or try in class because he didn't want to be bad at something, and I mean, it's just a mirror reflecting back to me, like how my brain works, you know. And I see it a lot in coaches who are starting their coaching business where they're like, you know, they can't give this thing away for free, but they're like, well, it's not working free, let me charge a hundred dollars for it. And it's like, no. If you can't give it away for free, I don't think you're gonna be able to charge a hundred dollars for it, you know, like just be okay with you know, being where you are. Find where that sweet spot is right outside of your comfort zone, and small steps forward are gonna get you there faster than trying to leap forward and then bouncing back because you went too far. You know, or getting like burnt out, and I think that is the biggest you know, secret I can give away, is you know, taking those small steps. You know, one small step at a time, it's just gonna get you there faster.
13:50:09 I like that a lot. Yeah, yeah, and you don't have to take a big leap out of your comfort zone, it can be a small step. And just little small– little steps and that– Don't try to rush yourself through the beginner stage because I mean, it's still gonna be, you're still gonna be in the beginner stage so you may as well just keep doing small steps.
13:50:33 Yeah. You know, I was– one of the things that I'm really focused on now is establishing how much energy things take out of me. Like yesterday I had to submit my taxes, like sales taxes to the government. It was the first time I was doing it, I was freaked out, I was a nervous wreck all day, and it just took a lot out of me, just energetically wiped me out. And so now consciously I'm gonna take it a little easier today. So I'm like weighing, you know, I'm in the midst of building my website, and while technology has made it that it's a lot easier to do it because I don't have to do the coding myself, and there's like sites where it's like drag and drop and whatever, there's still a lot that goes into it, that you know requires a lot of your energy. And so, you know, there is that part of me that's always like, oh my god, didn't get enough done today, oh my god, like there's that side of my brain that is so loud, right? And it's so like, well, like at some point it's like, what did you get done? And I'm like, no, but I really did a lot, I did this thing, I did that thing, I connected with that person– And if I had a check mark, like a list of like things that, you know, will move my, like my business forward, I'm doing a lot of the things. But then that one hard thing is like taking longer, and your brain is like, are you really any good at this? Are you ever gonna get this done? And I just feel like if we can tune in to– like what are the things like, okay, so I've got this one thing that's more of a stretch, like way closer in my panic zone than it is to my comfort zone, right? And so I can do that one thing. But I'm not going to fill my plate with a ton of those things, which I used to do all of the time. It's like, you know that– my brain likes to throw perfection at me, and like set the bar really high where this is how you have to perform, and it's a really good way to get me to stop and not to do the thing that I want to do, right? Like yesterday I wanted to go to the gym and do an upper body workout. And I would stuck doing that thing all day, so I didn't have time to go to the gym and instead I decided to do what I can at home, and I did lower body, I didn't complete the workout, but I did a good 20 minutes and gave it my all. And you know, at the end of the day, I got a good workout in. Okay, it was 25 minutes instead of the 40 minutes that I would have liked it to be, but I still got it done and your brain can very easily say if you can't do it perfectly don't do it at all, what's the point? But you know, do what you can. Don't fill up your plate, like be very conscious of you know, what is that thing that's taking up a lot of energy in a lot of space that you want to do? Totally cool, do it, but don't don't fill up all of your tasks with something that's out there, right? Do a lot of things that you're comfortable with and then– like 80% of what you do should be things that's right outside of your comfort zone. And then the other 20% can be, you know, that panic zone stuff, or like stretched out a little bit further out into your stretch or growth zone. But if you're conscious of this, and then you give yourself the time to recover, this is what I'm really focusing on at this phase of, you know, my life, business development, is just honoring the rhythm of my energy, and getting in tune with that, and I think it's really helpful.
13:55:16 That's very helpful. I like the– thinking about that, of where this task might sit in your comfort zone and the amount of energy, and that recognizing that if you're doing something like the taxes that is high energy, high panic zone, high– Maybe it’s the 1st time you're doing it or whatever, it's, you're not gonna be able to do a bunch of those things in one day or maybe even one week. The 80 versus 20 approach is a very cool one and it is, it's just cool to think about that– how much of your energy you're spending on things and balancing it out that way, and adjusting where you need to if something is, maybe you think it's in your comfort zone or just outside, but it ends up being really far outside of it or something like that.
13:56:08 Yeah. And always like, even with your investments, it's like, are you making this investment because you're trying to prove something? Are you making this investment because you think this person has something that you know, is the thing that is gonna complete you? That's never gonna happen. You got everything that you need, and you are complete as you are. And if you can go into something just knowing that, then great. Make the investment. But if you're making the other person, or the thing the other person has responsible for your results or for who you become, no, don’t make that investment.
13:56:55 Yeah. I like that. Those are two very– I'm just appreciating how those, like the summary of this of– I think that's just empowering, making those decisions from a place of lack or that like they’re– they have the answers isn't probably gonna– It's probably not the best place or not the best way of making that decision or you're not gonna get the most out of it, but coming from a place of like, you have enough, you are enough, and maybe you could learn, I just love, I love that. I love those– Those things to end on. Thank you so much for spending time and sharing your time with us, and sharing all of this with us. I feel like we could keep on talking, but I am gonna start to wrap it up a little bit, just because we're almost at the hour mark, which is amazing, I loved this conversation. Thank you so much for everything.
13:58:00 Thank you for having me.
13:58:01 Thank you. That's nice. It's a pleasure. Is there anywhere that people can find you? I'll put it in the show notes. But can you let people know where to find you or whatever you want to let them know?
13:58:14 Yeah, I mean, you can follow me on Facebook. You can follow me on Instagram. If you have any questions or are interested in working with me, you can DM me and just let me know that you heard me on Billie's podcast, you know, I'd love to know that you know, where you came from and how you know with me, and that's the best way to get in touch with me, I think, I just– I hang out on Instagram more than anywhere else.
13:58:51 Me too. Me too.
13:58:53 But my notifications are off on Instagram. My notifications on Facebook are on. So usually, you know– but I check both really regularly and it's really the best way to get to me at this time.
13:59:07 Awesome. Thank you so much again. I really loved having you here. I really appreciate your time and I hope that you have a really great day.
13:59:12 Thank you, you too!
Outro
Okay, I’m excited to hear what you think. I have been loving all of these conversations in the last five weeks that we’ve done, we’ve done quite a few interviews, I have quite a few more lined up for you, but next week we’re gonna be at a hundred episodes, which is absolutely wild to me, and if you were here from the very beginning I just– first of all, absolutely love you, and I’m so grateful for you, this podcast has changed a lot over the last almost-hundred episodes and I’m just so excited to see what happens next, I’ll leave all of that excitement, enthusiasm for next week. But I just wanted to, before we go, invite you to work with me one-on-one, I’m looking for a couple of clients who are wanting to work with me one-on-one, who are interested in learning how to listen to their body, who are interested in learning how to– how do I say this? – who want to throw diet culture right out the window, who want to improve your relationship with your body, and improve your relationship with movement, and how anti-fat bias might have kind of crept up there and affected some things, and how your history with diet culture may have affected your relationship with movement, so it’s kind of like if you know about life coaching, it’s kind of like life coaching through an anti-diet lens, plus movement, depending on the person, some people don’t want any of the movement stuff, some people do want some of the movement stuff, and if you do like the movement stuff then it’s very tailored for you and things that you are feeling in your body, we take all of that into account, and honestly these sessions are magical, and I absolutely love them. I love working with people and– yeah I’m gonna again hold in that excitement a little bit. If you’re interested, if you’ve been on the fence, consider this your sign to sign up to work with me, if you send me an email to info@movewithbillie.com, we can set up a one-on-one consult, a free half hour chat where we can just talk about what it looks like, if it’s a good fit, any of that stuff without any of the expense, and– yeah, I’m just so grateful for everyone who’s been here, and I’m grateful that you’ve been here the last couple of– you know, few interviews, and I hope that you love them, I hope that you love the next interviews, and if you have five minutes, make sure you follow the podcast, rate, review, and subscribe, and then if you follow me on social media, @movewithbillie, and then lastly, most importantly, subscribe to my newsletter. Find all the links in the show notes below, and if you love this podcast, you wanna support me financially, I would super appreciate it if you’d buy me a coffee, link’s in the show notes, it’s like $5 Canadian, I’d really help me out to continue to do this. And I wanna say thank you to Alyce for helping me with the captions for my episodes, she has done the last four at this point if I’m doing the math correctly, and absolutely am so grateful, I know that she’s reading this and listening to this, so just thank you very much. So, thank you everyone for listening, and I will see you next week. Bye!
